I agree with that couple. If I considered my animals as personal property I would not spend roughly $2000.00 a year alone just on preventive medical care. That does not include emergencies that arise during the year that require medical care.

I agree that pets are family members, but I am concerned that this will raise the cost of vet care. I have 2 dogs, and one is elderly. We spend $350 a month on her between meds and special food. I wouldn't have it any other way. She is a member of my family and I want her to have a happy (and pain free) life. If this lawsuit is "successful" I cringe to think how much more I will have to pay to offset the rise in vet malpractice insurance. Think of how many frivolous lawsuits will pop up.

I understand that pets are important parts of people lives and people love them and spend money on them. But they are not people, they do not have souls like people. Going down this road is going to lead to problems in the future. I love pets mind you but there is not that much of a difference between your dog or cat and a chicken or cow really. Granted if a dog pooped on my the floor in my kitchen I would be upset but if a cow did it I would loss my mind. Why are we so quick to eat one set of animals over another?

I don't think I worded my comment right. I agree that pets are a part of the family but I don't agree with the lawsuit part. There is way too much sueing going on in my opinion. Gwarfan, how do you know they don't have souls? Were you once a dog and came back as a zombie?

Where does the concept of soul come from CB? Religion correct? Well the only religion out there that gives animals souls are Asian, Buddism and Hindu. It is the reason we can kill and eat them without a care in the world. Heaven is not going to be full of cats and dogs. Now I do not have defenitive proff of this granted since I am not dead and I do not have two sided conversations with the almighty.

Zombies do not have souls either though. All forms of the undead lack a soul.

You are confusing me. Anyway I still love my animals and I ain't gonna eat none of them. If you come around and try to eat one of them you're gonna have a fight on your hands. Since we're into eating things, what is your take on Jeffery Dahmere? What religion would he fall under?

We don't HAVE souls. We ARE souls who have bodies. :)

I am not saying to eat your pets. That would just be odd. Also I have no interest in your pets they have lots of meat at the store. Mmmm Steak. But they eat dogs and cats in other parts of the world and never think twice about it. I was watching something on tv recently where they have three animals tied to a pole for a village feast, a cow, a goat, and this cute little puppy. I was sitting there and thinking, they are going to eat that dog arnt they, and sure enough they did.

I do not make any connection here but he became a Christian while in prison. Dahmere was a sick sick sick person, not because of that though because of the eating, tourture, and raping part. Look up Albert Fish also, he was way wacked out to and wrote letters to the family of the victims. Sick stuff.

You said the only religion that gave animals souls were Asian, buddism and hindu. Well I know asians eat cats and dogs. If they worship them why do they eat them? There is some country that worships cows. I think you and I have had this discussion before. I would be vegan before I could kill any animal. Dahmere was sick. He looked so normal. In fact I thought he was nice looking.

Just like in America not everyone follows their religion as strict as others. But Hindu has a very strong hold on India and they have the whole every animal or bug or what not that is alive has a soul and we recarnated and go through trials before we are finally set free of our earthly bonds. At the highest stage are humans and thus we have rules to follow or we fall back down the line of assension. Most Hindus are vegetarians. Buddism was formed off of Hindu ideals. Animals can be eaten by the common folk but monks do not eat meat and every go to great lengths to avoid killing things like gnats and worms and the lot. The Krishna's are Hindu based and can still be found around colleges across the country feeding students vegan fare and trying to convert them.

Gwarfan, I'm interested in your interpretation of the difference between a soul and a spirit.

Really, none of us can say what happens after we die. None of us can truly say animals don't go to Heaven. We can believe what we wish, but none of us has any proof that our beliefs are true.

I love animals as much as anybody, but I too am concerned about what this would mean for already outrageous vet bills. This is exactly why I do my own vetting unless it is something I am not qualfied to do. I can give shots, deworm, and do first aid myself.

The word soul and spirit are used interchangably really. Although a spirit is usually reserved for ghosts or supernatural powers outside of a living being.

Oh, I do believe that there are animals in heaven. Otherwise it would be hell for some people.

Ok I will give for a moment for nothing better than to see how this goes. What animals are allowed in heaven then? Like dogs and cats but no hippos? Next if you had a bad cat per say, one that did things on purpose to be bad would it go to hell? Like this cat I know named Alex that literally pees in folks bags selectively. The little monster. What is the basis for entry into heaven for animals vs people? How do they play the harp?

You are so right Truth. I have a cat that I question if he could make it to heaven. But he had a bad childhood so I make allowances for him. Unless you have died and came back, gwarfan, how do you know what is in heaven? I can only hope animals are allowed in heaven. I know I have had some that should have made it there long before some of the so called christains I know. Sorry if that offends anyone.

why can't all animals go to "the afterlife?" gwrfan its obvious you are not an animal lover cause you could not say the thigs you do. You've never had the adoration and love of an animal have you? Never had one save your life or make a difference in your life.

My God is not the one of organized religion. He is the one who created all life, including the animals.

CB if there is a kitty heaven then there should also be a kitty hell right. i hear what you saying though and I get it but once your in heaven things change I rekon.

You got me I hate animals. I wish all the cute fuzzy beast would die. Come on and get real. You can love animlas without putting them on the same level as humans. I have had pets my whole life and I have never had one save my life all Lassie style I know why folks have pets. They provide comfort and companionship. But so do call girls if you meet their needs also. CJ if you do not follow any organized religion then your came up with heaven how? There has to be some basis for your heave unless of course it is just made up as you like it, then I can not argue who or what gets in. Sure I have not died or I would be on a circuit telling folks about the afterlife and living a lot better or worse than I do not. Are there any requirements to get into the heaven you know CJ?

You have to look over gwarfan. After all he helped his friend kill his pet pot belly pig and they ate it. I hope you weren't telling a fib when you told me that.

I don't think that heaven will be anything like earth. I don't know what it will really be like, but I can't imagine God giving us all the wonderful things on earth like green grass and cows chewing cud and not giving them to us in heaven. I don't think it will be limited like it is on earth. I am just guessing, but I think it'll be "custom made" for each of us.

And for goodness sake, there is only one God. It's people who assign categories to God.

You know this is a very deep and heavy discussion. It gives us a lot to think about. I like your analogy, Truth.

I dont want to argue about the God or a God or Greek vs Roman vs Norse vs Chrsitain. Gesh that is a whole different day and time for sure.

Pot belly pigs are horrid pets like i said. all they do is squeal, eat, and poop. I sure hope they dont get to go to heaven otherwise it would be horrid. But they taste damn fine. I was also part of a killing of a pet mouse one time. I had a friend that lived in Mobile and his little brother told us he want some pet white mice for his birthday, the little kid was ten or something and we were 18ish. So we went to the store and got him three mice and somehow talked him into trying to make one blue. Next thing we did was get some water and blue food coloring and mixed it up and dunked the little thing in there for awhile so he would be blue. It worked. Well sort of, the poor little thing was all messed up and breathing funny and looking like it was in a lot of pain so someone took it outside with the little brother and and chopped the thing in half with a shovel and blood sprayed on the brother. We got yelled and it was a bad scene watching his little brother running around with mouse blood on his face screaming.

Gwarfan, what are you gonna do if you fall in love with a lady that loves animals? You may not get to name any babies. You can love animals without going to the extreme. I have never dressed them up and toted them around like Paris Hilton. But some people do and that is ok by me.

You are horrible. I know you ain't going to heaven. Talk about reflections on parents. Was your parents the unabomber.

You just said an ugly word. I guess that pig will get to go to heaven in your place. Just kidding.

I don't know what Heaven is, but when my uncle told the whole family it was a beautiful garden where he was going (spoken on his deathbed) I believed him.
When my neighbor talked about walking with God in pretty garden and said he told her she had to go back a little while, I believed her. She died two days later.
I've never heard anybody talk about visiting hell before they died though.
What you think don't matter to me because I know what I feel inside and that's whats right for me. You can think what you want and thats whats right for you. I just can't imagine not thinking animals have an afterlife too.
You don't have to believe in organized religion to believe in heaven. And it's not your right to argue the point as to who gets in or don't. It's your right to believe what you want to and express that but don't put people down for thinking different.
I have had my life saved by an animal, one I think was an angel in disguise. I'v had special pets that were 'something more" than just a pet - and others that were just pets. I like toi think Truth is right, that out afterlife is different for each of us. But bottom line is, you or nobody else knows what it is til you die, and then you can't blog.
Oh yeah - somebody asked my uncle who he was with in that beautiful garden, who was there. His eyes were closed and he was in hospice and weak, not long before he died, and he just smiled and said " I can't tell you."
I believe there are things God doesn't want us to know until it is our time to know - and go.
Truth, you're so wise. I like what you said.

I like what you say also CalamityJane. I just hope I can see my parents and younger brother again.

I bet a zombie could blog. I will blog from the grave Calamity. ------ I am not judgeing anyone. I want you to live in a world where you are free to believe as you wish as long as it does not infinge on my life. But if one goes by the Bible, Torah, Koran, or any other religious text there are basic rules for entry into a heaven or perfect afterlife. Of course we do not know for a fact until we are dead. You can believe what ever you like. This whole new age make what you want out of religion is fine by me.If you a free form religion person rock it and do what you do. I do not say one is better than the other I just personally have respect for rules, order, laws, and what religion was formed to do. My ideal of divinity is not the same as your, and.... like they say we could both be wrong and the Mormons were the only ones that had it right.

A discussin on God or argument is almost pointless at times. Either you have been to the edge and seen the light or a void or you have not. You have felt the spirit or have not. I am just as likely to convince you there is a real Santa that comes to your house than convince my friend Conan there is a god. I completely conceed that I do not have insider info on animals and heaven. But what gives me the justification to say it is my belief in order and the self centered ideal that on this planet only humans have souls. Not animals, not bugs, not angels even. That is my take from a theological literature that I have seen.

Ok ok our bodies are just shells of flesh that keep us bond here. That sounds a lot like Scientology there truth or should I call you tom.

We don't have souls. We are souls. We have a body. :)

Truth isn't Tom, I can bet you.
I don't call myself religios. I call myself spiritual and I have had experiences that prove to me God is real. They are personal experiences but I know what I know. I can't convince anybody God is real because until they see and feel it for themself, there's nothing gonna convince them.
Organized religion is made up my mankind. How can we trust the written words, written by man, are the truth? I use the Bible as a guideline but base my beliefs on what I feel, what I have experienced, and on what is good and bad. There's no denying good and evil - they both exist. I don't look down on you gwarfan for your beliefs. I just disagree about animals.

Actually it is Christianity. Read some CS Lewis. :) If we are bodies with a soul, then when we die our soul dies. If we are souls with a body, when our body dies our soul is free to go on. Whether that is to Heaven or Hell is between you and God.

Truth the whole idea of heaven and hell for our souls is just that, between god and ourselves. We will find out what happens when it happens right. I love Narnia the books get odd toward the final two though with a sea of flowers and what not and that Four Loves thing he did was good but a little long winded. I think Lewis writes things that make you think a lot more than most churches I have been in will. I was playing about the Scientology thing, they do believe the body and soul are eternal with multiple lives though.

CJ I can conceed to disagree with you on animals and heaven. I just wonder if you think that way then what are the limits right, just like not all humans get into heaven. Is there a animal hell? Are all animals there? I am not trying to set you up to attack by the way I just wonder about the thought process.

I bet you didn't think animals would get this much attention did you?

Oh, and try reading The Screwtape Letters. THAT is an interesting book!!

I don't think animals go to heaven because of themselves. I think they go for people. The same reasons God put them on earth, for people.

I love animals and believe they should be treated well and given attention. We can not however give them human status in the law! They are not humans.

I agree with BG's last statement.

But I feel - in my heart without basis of any fact - that there is a rewarding " afterlife" for animals.
And a thought - we are souls with bodies, not bodies with souls. Who is to say a soul cannot be reincarnated after their old body's life is over? And could not that soul be given a body of an animal the next go round?

How do we know? I think CJ has a point. So does Truth.

It is not for me to judge what happens to animals after death! Guess that is a suprise we will all find out about one day.

You are exactly right bullochguy. None of us will know what is on " the other side" until we get there.

Obiviously we can not know for sure until we die. But if you thought that animals and humans both contained souls of the same sort why would you eat lets say a chicken and not your neighbor Tommy? Why a chicken over a cat? What marks that distinction?